After I had given H a letter saying I was happy that she had pushed me away as I was now able to leave her:
H: I wonder why you had to write it and couldn’t tell me.
Client: Because I'm too scared.
H: WHY are you SCARED?
Client: You don’t know why I would be scared?
H: No. You are scared as though I'm an abuser.
Client: You don’t have any idea why I would be scared?
H: No.
Client: Wow, that’s bad.
H: No, because in a way, it’s interesting that YOU are scared of ME. Because what I have done is actually stopped your abuser abusing me. That is not the same as me becoming the abuser.
Client: I'm not talking about you stopping the emails.
H: What are you talking about?
Client: I'm talking about the way you did it. The thoughtlessness, lack of feelings and it was a re-action, you didn’t discuss it with me. You didn’t explain.
H: I did explain.
Client: No you didn’t
H: I explained it very clearly.
Client: You didn’t. You explained it logically. You don’t see your abusive part in this. I can see mine but you can’t see yours.
H: Well yes but we are not allowed to talk about yours. It’s always turned around.
Client: How do you know we are not allowed to talk about it?
H: We are not allowed to talk about it.
Client: Says who?
H: Says you. Because always it is turned around to me.
Client: No.
H: It’s always turned around to me.
Client: No its not.
H: Just like it is right now.
Client: How? I didnt… I just said to you that I can see my abusive part in this but you can’t see yours.
H: And what I'm saying is that’s what happens every time that …
Client: You don’t have a clue what's going on right now because you are just trying to protect yourself.
H: That’s not all I'm trying to do, it’s part of what I'm trying to do.
Client: Yes it is, that is what you are trying to do right now. You just want to stay save and you are forgetting an important thing and that is me. Just that sentence “why would you be scared?” You can’t even hear your tone of voice is filled with resentment and negativity. “Why would you be scared?” There is no compassion, no curiosity. That’s not what it’s about. “Why would you be scared?” That sentence alone with that tone alone makes me scared. And I'm not even going to repeat all the other things you said to me. You can’t actually see by you telling me that I'm a bully you are the one who is bullying. And you actually put me in a corner now. And you are saying you are being pushed into a corner. You are the victim now. You are the total victim, just like M. “Oh X is so dangerous I am so scared” “Did she do anything?” “No, she would not do anything but I'm scared! She’s bad! But she wouldn’t do anything” When it was you who encouraged the phone calls. Who encouraged emails and now suddenly you had enough. You just say it like that without any kindness. You just had enough and you were full of resentments and angry and you used your control your power over me. That’s what you did. You used it. That makes you the bully and that makes you the abuser.
Client: 5.35 you’ve lost all humility. You have no humility. You are just raging you are angry and yes, that scares me. And that’s normal. Especially when every expression of my fear or my feelings is seen as a manipulation of some sort. If I talk or act I am being judged as manipulative if I don’t talk I am being judged as being manipulative. “Why can’t you talk? That’s not going to get rid of the fear! Why are you scared?” You should really look at yourself.
H: I think perhaps in the circumstances given as you feel as you do it sounds as though you really would be better of finding another therapist. Because I don’t see if that is how you feel that leaves any more room to work.
Client: You want me to feel differently then you could work with me?
H: How can I work with you if you have such a low opinion of me?
Client: You have the low opinion of me.
H: No! Don’t turn it around again. I said “how on earth can you work with me when you have such a low opinion of me.”
Client: I'm here aren’t I?
H: Yes.
Client: And I'm trying.
H: How can you work with me when I am absolutely the end, I’m an abuser, I have no feelings, I’m heartless. How on earth can you bring yourself and your vulnerability to work with me?
Client: What I'm saying is, maybe we can look at it and try to work out what is happening here. I'm trying to. But all I seem to get from you is defensiveness.
H: I haven’t opened my mouth and you are continuing to tell me what I am. And all of the things you are telling me suggests to me that there is no future for a therapy. Because if I'm an abuser , if I have no feelings if I have no compassion if I have no care if I have no thought if I'm just defensive and protecting myself then there is no space for us to work. And that’s the reality.
Client: No, the reality is something else.
H: If that is what you think of me then there is no way we can work.
Client: I have come here because I’m hoping I can understand what is happening to me.
H: It sounds like you have come here to tell me everything that I am and that I have done and to put everything onto me.
Client: Well, excuse me for being a client. Excuse me for expressing how I feel. Excuse me for feeling that you are useless.
H: You are telling me what I am. You are telling me what I am.
Client: How do you want me to say it? ‘I feel that you are…this and that.’ Does that make you feel better?
H: I don’t want to feel better.
Client: You do because you are complaining about how I’m telling you that –
H: I'm saying I don’t think we can work together under those circumstances. I'm not complaining
Client: That’s another threat. You are threatening me again!
H: No I'm not threatening you!
Client: You are saying that if I don’t do what you are telling me to do and I don’t talk to you the way you want me to talk to you then you are not going to –
H: I AM SAYING IF YOU BELIEVE THOSE things we cannot work together.
Client: You can’t see what you’ve done, can you. You can’t see what you’ve actually done. You don’t want to see it. And now you are blaming me for this
H: I'm not blaming you for anything.
Client: You are so contradicting.
H: I'm not blaming you for anything. It is you who is blaming me.
Client: You just told me if I can’t see you in a different light-
H: How on earth-
Client: Can I finish!
H: HOW CAN YOU WORK WITH AN ABUSER?! How can you possibly work with an abuser?
Client: You are just fucking clueless, aren’t you.
H: No I'm not.
Client: How can you work with an abuser? So you thought the "abuser" would never come in here did you?
H: No, not that I'm an abuser!
(10.55 Inaudible)
Client: So suddenly this is not the work anymore?
H: What calling me an abuser is not the work? No it isn’t. Never was.
Client: Ok. I was so wrong about you.
H: Perhaps you were.
Client: Basically you don’t want me to "abuse" you, and you don’t want to be called an abuser. So basically what you
are saying is, you don’t want me to be the abuser and you don’t want me to see you as the abuser. Where is the abuser supposed to be, where?
H: I'm not saying you can’t be the abuser. Not at all. In here that’s absolutely right.
Client: H, you are just gone. You are gone I'm telling you now. Have you got supervision? Are you talking about this to anyone? Because you lost the plot
H: Well then you need to find another therapist
Client: Yes, and I will have another therapist that failed me.
H: Well maybe that needs to be thought about.
Client: What, just say what you want to say. That needs to be thought about!
H: What is happening that it keeps failing?
Client: You know you actually said the same things that M said. Exactly the same things. But strangely enough when I came and talked to you about M you were shocked,
H: I was shocked that she took you to the hospital.
Client: No. Ok.
H: I was shocked about the emails she sent you. I was shocked how she handled it.
Client: Well, you are handling it exactly the same way.
H: No I'm not.
Client: Yes you are.
H: Laughs*, no I'm not.
Client: Yes you are.
H: No I'm not
Client: And this could easily go in front of a complaint because –
H: So you want to destroy me like you wanted to destroy M?
Client: No! Because that’s why I'm here! But you keep pushing me away. I want to sort it out and you keep pushing me away. I said about mediation, “I’m not going to mediation that’s not how I work” I'm sitting here wanting to work it out “I don’t think this therapy is for you because you see me as the abuser” so you keep pushing me away what else is there left for me to do? What do you want me to do, do as I'm told? You are not trying to help me understand this. There is not one bit of you right now and in the last few days that wants to help me understand.
H: That isn’t true!
Client: Why are you not helping me then?
H: I tried on Monday.
Client: On Monday?
H: 14.00 Yes.
Client: 15.00 You are falling into the same thing that M did. And I’m going to understand what is going to happen to me.
H: I’d like for that to happen too.
Client: No, you are telling me that if I don’t feel differently about you then this therapy is no longer for me. These are your words. So don’t mind fuck me and tell me ‘that’s what I would like to happen too’; you like it to happen if I behave and feel for you the way you want me to feel for you.
H: No. No. I don’t care how you feel for me. It’s just I'm saying to you if you truly believe that I am the things that you listed then I can’t think how anything can be therapeutic, if you really believe that.
Client: That’s why I am in therapy. That’s why I’m therapy. To see you differently one day. That’s why I go to therapy. I don’t come to therapy to stroke you I don’t come to therapy to make you feel good.
H: I don’t want to feel good. That isn’t what I'm saying.
Client: You want me to make you feel good in some ways.
H: No I don’t want you to make me feel good.
Client: Well I'm not feeling good about you.
H: I don’t expect you to feel GOOD about me. That’s not the same thing. You can be angry with me you can hate me. But actually if you truly believe that I am the things that you said that is very different from saying ‘you hurt me H I’m angry with you, I hate you’
Client: That’s exactly what M said ‘it’s a lot easier if you come into the session saying M I'm angry with you because you went on holiday for a week’ ok, I make a mental note, next time that happens and I am overwhelmed with feelings I just try to calm myself down and say it like that just to please you. Just so you won’t tell me to go away.
H: I am pointing out the difference. That’s all I'm doing.
Client: And you don’t think I know that? You don’t think that I would actually love to like you? You don’t actually think that I would like to see you as trustworthy, no? You don’t think I would love to do that? Because my life would be hell of a lot better if I did. It’s like I’m doing it on purpose!
H: 17.43 I know you are not doing it on purpose
Client: 18.30 What does that tell you, even though I think like that and feel like that about you I’m still coming. I’m still here I’m still trying. You have given up now. I’m trying despite your bullying, your threatening. In a way that’s my attachment. Now I come like a little lamb to the slaughter house. And every single time I sit here I have to listen to your snidy remarks.
H: X you are not being a little lamb.
Client: I can be an "abuser" too but you don’t see that. You only see the abuser.
H: Is that right?! I only see the abuser which is why I have spent so long sitting there being kind being thoughtful being understanding being gentle with a very vulnerable self I know there is a very vulnerable self.
Client: Haven’t you asked yourself why I am still coming here whereas before I used to miss sessions when you were kind. But strangely enough now, I’m coming every single session.
H: In fact the abuser sees kindness as weakness.
Client: That might be so. So what am I going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Tell me to not come back anymore? That’s your solution. Don’t come back here anymore because it’s driving me mad!
H: I haven’t said that! I HAVENT SAID NO I HAVENT! You have twisted it!
Client: I know what you said you said if I can’t feel for you in a different way then this is not the right therapy.
H: No, I said this can’t be therapeutic if you truly believe the things about me that you said .
Client: So, what are you asking from me? You are asking from me .. you are asking me to--
H: This has to be a repetition and unless we can think about it together about the abuser within you--
Client: How exactly do you want me to find the space to think when you threatened me with the end of my therapy?
How am I supposed to have headspace to think about it?
H: X, nothing has changed today. You have continued today not to allow space. There is no space for thought there is no space for me to speak.
Client: Because I'm feeling right now. And maybe you don’t like that! But I’m feeling and I don’t give a shit about your interpretations and your thoughts!
H: Tell me what it is your feeling!
Client: I don’t want to tell you anything right now because you are not a safe person. Because of the things you have just told me.
H: Well you said that each time you come. “I’m not save because –
Client: What does that tell you about you?
H: It tells me what I just said. If that is the case—
Client: But what does that tell you about you? Maybe you should think ‘what am I doing wrong?’ you told me so many bad things the last few sessions.
H: 21. 43 And there are more to come!
Client: See, there you go again.
H: Well there are.
Client: There you go again, where is the compassion in that?
H: Well how can I give you compassion right now when actually what you want to do is be angry and abuse me.
Client: I don’t want to abuse you! I'm angry!
H: Yes, you are angry and you want to hurt and lash out. And that is what you want to do.
Client: You know what, and I'm allowed to do that.
H: Yes, I'm not saying you are not.
Client: Well, what's the big deal then? I'm allowed to be angry and lash out. So I'm not even allowed to lash out in the session anymore?
H: I didn’t say you weren’t.
Client: Why are you mentioning it then? Why do you call me an abuser when I’m angry? Every time I’m angry you call me an abuser now. You are the one who is being abusive. You are!
H: That’s very interesting how each time it’s turned around.
Client: By me being angry and expressing my anger and you calling me an abuser then you are being the one who is --
H: X, there is an abuser in you
Client: Just like there is in you.
H: Who causes your life to be so damaged and disruptive
Client: Just like there is in you.
H: No, not like there is in me.
Client: Well he is acting, she is acting now believe me.
H: No this is not abuse! I am trying to help you to see. That there is something in you that we need to attend to.
Client: No, you are not. Because the very first thing you said when I came into therapy today or the second thing you said was ‘if I can’t think or feel differently about you then the therapy is ending’ so don’t tell me you are trying to explain something to me because you are not.
H: I did not say that!
Client: Yes you did!
H: No I didn’t!
Client: There’s something wrong with you...
H: I'm saying that if you truly believe that I am all of the things that you have just said then you need to find another therapist.
Client: See, there you go.
H: If you truly believe is what I said.
Client: What things that I believe about you?
H: Well if you can’t remember the things you have said!
Client: Man, this is no fucking game. I'm just asking you a normal question. What things?
H: Well you know what you believe in!
Client: Yes I know what I believe about you but what is it that is upsetting you?
H: I'm not upset!
Client: Fucking hell, you can’t even admit that you are upset.
H: 24.35 For crying out loud! Enough! Enough! This is mad!
Client: No you are mad! I'm sitting here being angry and even that’s not right. When I'm quiet that’s not right. When I do this that’s not right. What do you want me to do? The only repeat that you are seeing right now is that I’m the abuser.
H: Or a victim!
Client: Yes, that’s all you can see. But you can’t see anything else because you are so caught up in your own bruised ego that’s what you are trying to look after. “Sitting here with you being kind, many, many years”, “bend over for you backwards”, just like M, “look how ungrateful you are!” Next thing you are going to tell me is you are going to move house. Madness? Yes, that’s exactly what it is H. Welcome to my world.
27.30 I can put my hands up and say yes I’ve done things, because suddenly there is just me as a whole now isn’t there. Cos before there were the others. But right now, there is just me isn’t there. That’s another thing you have just totally forgotten about. So maybe I’m just making this up too? Maybe I am lying after all; maybe I’m just being manipulative. But I can always say, I feel always guilty and ashamed and responsible for everything and when I do a bad thing I always feel bad about it. But you, you can’t say, you have no humility. You can’t see your part in this. You can’t see how horrible you were. What terrible comments you made. And the way you said it. You can’t see it. You are ‘staying firm!’ staying firm in being ignorant and arrogant.
29.07 Telling me that I’m lashing out when you are the one lashing out. You are the one threatening me. You are the one who suddenly withdrew all the support. Everything. Absolutely everything. You have gone from one extreme to the other. Then you are telling me that I’m lashing out.
And why did you ask me “why couldn’t you tell me this in person?” why? What were the thoughts behind that I wonder. Instead of talking to me about what I have just written to you, you want to know why I can’t tell you this. So there you have it. Already you are coming from a totally different place. You are not interested in how I feel. You are interested in “what is she trying to do now?” what game is she trying to play now” why is she not telling me in person? Why is she writing it down? You are the mad one here. You have my madness I’m telling you. And THIS I wrote because I was feeling something. Or not feeling something. I didn’t write it on paper to upset you. I didn’t write it on paper to manipulate you. I have just written this and all you are interested in is why can’t you tell me that face to face. Why can’t you tell me that in words? And that’s exactly what I mean. You have no compassion for my feelings, no interest in my feelings.
H: 31. 20 it is full of complete sarcasm. It is a completely sarcastic. This is not done to communicate! Its sarcastic, it is NOT expressing your feelings it is actually saying “Oh I’m so happy H!”
Client: But I am!
H: Oh, you sound it!
Client: No, I'm angry now because of the things you did but I'm happy about that you have pushed me away—
H: I don’t believe that. I think that is absolute nonsense because you are so angry now.
Client: Yes I’m angry about other things but I’m happy that I don’t have to feel so miserable. That I actually cut it off, I don’t know what I did with it and I don’t care. But I don’t have to feel it right now. And that is actually saving my life and X’s life and X’s. And I wasn’t being sarcastic! And when I re read it I thought “I bet H thinks that sarcastic” but that is actually how I felt at the time when I wrote this. But there you go again, you are being suspicious of how I feel and what I say. You don’t believe me what I say what I bring.
H: Not when it’s expressed with such fury no.
Client: This is how I felt at the time I wrote this
H: Ok
Client: Do you want me to swear on X’s life? I swear on X’s life this is how I felt when I wrote this. See. It doesn’t matter what I say or do everything is going to be, you are suspicious of everything now. And then you say “I don’t trust you” I remember I said “H we need to build up trust again” “Trust?! Trust?!” scoffing at me like, the disgust in your voice. “You don’t trust me! You let everyone else support you! I can’t support you, you don’t trust me!”
H: Well that’s what you told me.
Client: Yes, that’s what I told you H because this is what's going on in my head. This is what therapy is about isn’t it? I tell you what I feel what I think and then we work together with it. But you don’t go “Ugh! Trust! You don’t trust me!” like, like, I mean, why do I have to explain this to you? And when I said to you, why didn’t you at least leave me some helplines, you have offered support before when you went away like texting or other things and now you have gone to the extreme of offering skype when I was in Dubai and suddenly nothing. Not even “here phone this helpline up.” Nothing, you just left like that. Did you want me to be happy about that? And then you lied. And you said you were coming home Monday night and you didn’t. You lied. And you were found out and that made you even more angry. And then you thought “so that’s it. I’ve had enough.”
You shouldn’t have lied. I should be suspicious of you and I am. But everything I do, I always do it and you can see what I’m doing I don’t lie or play games like that - you obviously do.
Client: 36.0 “You are a counsellor now!” You know how sarcastic you are? And this has exactly happened when I told you about my training and remember I told you you want to destroy me? Well you are doing it. You are doing it now. Because it all started when I told you about something precious. And it’s unfair from you to demand of me that I treat you in any other way than in a mistrustful way after what you have said to me. Yes you’ve been kind and I’m not saying that you are not but you have done other things too and you don’t want to see them.
Client: 40.17 Have you any idea what the impact is on me when you say if you can’t do this or that or if you think like this or then you can’t continue this therapy. Have you actually thought about that sentence?
Client: Or are you just not going to talk to me now?
H: I haven’t anything to say.
Client: Right. Ok
H: There is nothing to engage with at the moment.
Client: I’m asking you a question.
H: It’s not one that, in a sense, it doesn’t deserve an answer.
Client: My question doesn’t deserve an answer?
H: No, THAT question doesn’t deserve an answer. Because I have nothing to say that would, if that is a question that you really asking me, do I not think about what I’m saying, then of course I do.
Client: No, I'm asking you have you ever thought about the impact it has on me when you say--
H: Yes of course. And it’s supposed to. Because it’s how it is.
I do think of the impact, of course I think of the impact. I was stating how it is. I was actually telling you that if you truly believe those things then this therapy can’t help you. I can’t help you if you truly believe I’m an abuser. Because all it will do is continue that has been going on all your life. And if you truly believe that I am an abuser, then that is what I am saying. That is all that I was saying. There was supposed to be an impact.
Client: You know just little sentences like your question doesn’t deserve an answer. That is emotional abuse in my books.
H: It might be emotional abuse in your book but you know very well, you DO know it, you DO know that I do think about what I say
Client: No H I don’t. Because the last few days, before I would have, yes, but the last few days, you have totally gone. You are gone. So when I’m asking you have you ever thought about the impact, I do want to know.
H: Ok, the answer is yes.
Client: So, you thought about it, after the first time you said it, and then a few days later you said it again. You threatened me again.
H: It’s not a threat
Client: It is a threat
H: It isn’t
Client: It is a threat
H: Well it feels like it
Client: It is a threat because you are threatening me because have you any idea I have been coming here for 4 years and the “others”, which are totally gone now, and the attachment they have, threatening them as well, because you are telling them don’t call and don’t email—
H: Unless we deal with the abuser nothing is ever going to change.
Client: You just made it worse, because you let the "abuser" win. Because now you left everyone with the abuser. They are not even able to tell you anything about it. Because you wanted to be left!
H: No!
Client: You wanted to be left alone!
H: No! I want someone to be able to come here who isn’t on the abusers side. And if there isn’t anybody who can come here who isn’t on the abusers side
Client: What everyone is abusive?
H: No, either frightened of the abuser or ___ by the abuser, I can’t do it alone.
Client: I’m here and I’m trying to understand what's going on
H: Well I’m just telling you that’s what I’m trying to say
Client: Ok. Ok well. That’s fine. And I’m here and I’m trying to understand. And I’m not on the abuser's side. Because like I told you many times now that I have my thing to play in this as well but you are not hearing me
H: I do hear you
Client: But you can’t say what your part in this is. Your part is a big part as well and a very abusive part as well. What you’ve done by taking all these things away you can’t see what you have actually done. There is no concern about my well-being about X’s well-being. None. And if you know that the abuser is so bad and you know that this is going to impact me in a bad way then why not at least say it in a different way and try to help me understand and say and I’m not even going to tell you how to say it, but there are so many different ways you could have said this but you weren’t able to because you were raging. You were fucking angry. And your madness has stopped now yes, probably. So you’re ok now. And that’s what this is all about ‘cos you sure enough didn’t do that for me.
Client: 47.11 You can’t see the hopelessness in this letter. That’s underneath this sudden, “oh I’m so hopeful I’m so hopeful”; and I was, really, really hopeful. And I still am. I totally cut myself off from you because of the hopelessness. Because I feel there is absolutely nothing to find here for me. But you take that personal as well.
H: It’s not that I take it personal but I’m saying to you if that is really the case, that’s what I’m saying. If you say that there is nothing here for you, I’m not here for you, that I’m the abuser, I have no feelings, I have no care, if you really think that then that is all I’m saying, I’m saying to you , why put yourself through this to sit here with such an awful person?
Client: Because it happens to me with every therapist. Because it is what happened to me in my past. This is what it’s about, it’s not about you. Or me. Now. This is what happened to me as a child. That’s why and to the next therapist I will be there for another 4 years then it will happen again. Then they send me away again. That’s why I’m still here.
Client: There is no symbolic thinking in this room anymore. And that is dangerous for me, yes. Because it actually means that you can’t help me.
H: Well symbolic thinking would mean and understanding the transference that actually in the transference I am either experienced as an abuser or a victim and you are either the abuser or victim. As if. So that it would be as if I were an abusive person, as if I didn’t care, not that actually I don’t, that would be symbolic thinking.
Client: Yes. But then it is not just about transference.
H: But that is symbolic.
Client: Yes, and that’s what I mean. You can’t see that now.
H: No, you’re telling me there is no symbolic thought and I’m suggesting that perhaps it is very difficult right now when you are feeling so angry now to have symbolic thinking.
Client: No I can. You are the one who thinks concretely. “You have done this and you have done that” “why are you doing this and why are you doing that?” - concrete. Every single time you say something to me.
Client: Except when you want to tell me I’m a bully or an abuser, then symbolic because then you are having a good way of telling me that I am being a bully by explaining it that way. But every other thing you are just concrete.
H: Right
Client: And you can’t understand why I could be scared that in itself is a scary thought. Because what else are you going to take away from me. What else are you going to punish me with when I do something or feel something that you don’t agree with, do you actually want me to come here now and feel free to talk and express how I feel after you have done that? And you know last session, you know what it felt like when you said “you act as though I threatened you.” This is exactly like what my mum and dad used to be like after in the morning, after the night before. When terrible things happened. “What's the matter you act as though something terrible happened” and then if I dared to even say something terrible did happen I was shut down. I was bullied to be silenced.
H: X I haven’t abused you.
Client: You have bullied me to be silent. You have done something terrible.
H: No I haven’t. You have not been bullied into silence
Client: Yes I have
H: No because you have not been silent here today. You are not bullied into silence.
Client: I am
H: No you are not
Client: Yes I am
H: You are being very vocal
Client: Yes I have been vocal because –
H: So you are not being bullied into silence I am creating a boundary that says--
Client: But last session I wasn’t able to talk
H: But I won’t be abused. Yes what happened to you as a child was unforgivable
Client: Neither will I be abused.
H: So neither of us will be. And that will be good.
Client: Yes but I can see my part in it you can’t.
H: Setting my boundaries firmly is not abuse
Client: I’m not talking about your "boundaries"
H: Yes you are
Client: No I’m not
H: Yes you have been. You have been saying what I have done to you is abuse.
Client: Yes, how you have done it. With no thought about anything. The only thing you had in mind was yourself.
And your own agendas. That what was in your mind and still is to this day.
H: Yes, I am keeping the boundaries firm and safe.
Client: That’s fine, you can do that but I’m talking about the feeling bit. That you have missed. And the impact. “I’m staying firm” I know you are staying firm H. You have told me that many, many times.
H: 54.58 So actually are you saying that you only want to come on a Monday now? Is that what you are saying?
Client: Yes.
H: Right. You actually mean that? You want to do that?
Client: Yes I mean that.
H: Ok
Client: Will give you a break as well.
H: No, no, you are not doing it for me,
Client: No I’m not doing it for you I am doing it for me, but what I’m saying is it will give you a break as well.
H: I don’t need a break.
Client: Really.
H: I don’t need a break. It’s not me who is asking you to come once a week.
Client: Yes I’m coming once a week because I want to.
H: Right
Client: That’s what I just said but that doesn’t mean that I can’t say it will give you a break too.
H: You can say whatever you like.
Client: You are so defensive
H: No I’m not defensive!
Client: Yes you are!
H: I'm just asking, what is your intention.
Client: I know that is the question but the other things you are just being defensive.
H: Well it’s really difficult to find a way in to be anything at the moment when there is a bombardment at everything I say which is twisted and turned and taken and abused and battered. There is nothing I can say that will make a difference today. Absolutely nothing.
Client: You have been saying that for a long time H “nothing I say will make a difference!”
H: See this is the point, what am I to say, every time I try to put something
Client: Where is your humility?
H: What humility? Do you want me to crawl on the floor? What do you want me to do?!
Client: That’s exactly your problem you don’t have any humility.
H: No - that’s another one on the list of my faults that I’m not. I have no feelings –
Client: Right now you have no humility.
H: The accusations that you have thrown at me today one after the other the list of my failings are quite phenomenal. They are quite phenomenal.
Client: You just can’t see it.
H: Well I can. I can see that actually it must be appalling for you because I can’t imagine how it must be to sit with somebody who is like that I can’t imagine. I know that I wouldn’t!
Client: Well, that’s why you don’t want me here!
H: I wouldn’t go actually to a therapist that’s what I’m saying. I wouldn’t go to a therapist who actually I believed harbored all those feelings.
Client: So why do you think I’m going then?
H: Sorry?
Client: Why do you think I still come here?
H: You tell me X.
Client: No I would like you to tell me
H: I don’t know why. You tell me why
Client: No, you tell me why. I asked you.
H: Because it’s your imagination.
Client: But it’s YOUR little fantasies why I wrote this letter, why I—
H: I DON’T KNOW X I’m telling you the answer is I don’t know but you can’t hear me!
Client: Yes I can, but I don’t believe you because you lied to me before. You lied.
H: So you see, this is why it is impossible for me to say anything because whenever I say something it’s a lie.
Client: Maybe you should say “yes I have lied”
H: No, I’m not going to! Not on that particular score. Absolutely not. I said I was coming home on Monday night because that’s when I was going to be available from.
Client: Yes, so you lied.
H: Yes. No I didn’t lie.
Client: Yes you did.
H: No. I didn’t lie because I have actually the right to say when I’m going to be available.
Client: Yes you do, but you shouldn’t lie. Because you will always be found out. You could have easily said to me I’m coming home at this time because you know how important it is
H: No I said I’m coming back, I told ALL my patients I am back on Monday in order to cover myself because last time my flight was delayed 24 hours and this time I said I’m coming back on Monday night. That’s when I’m starting work. And I don’t have to justify that
Client: No you don’t have to justify but you shouldn’t lie.
H: I can tell you whatever I like about when I’m going to be at home. That is my business not yours!
Client: But you shouldn’t have told me at all then. Why tell me?
H: Well I'm sorry but that is my prerogative. If I say I will be available from such and such –
Client: No you didn’t say “available” –
H: I said “back”
Client: Yes Monday night.
H: And I was back Monday night.
Client: No
H: I was here but I was back in my work mode.
Client: What's wrong with saying I will be back such and such time –
H: Because I wanted to make sure that I had a little bit of space
Client: That’s what I mean. So basically don’t trust me that I –
H: No I don’t because I know how difficult it is
Client: But you have never actually tried it before. You have never actually sat me down and said “X I really need some time because I am tired or whatever and I need –
H: I have!
Client: No you haven’t.
H: X I have.
Client: You haven’t!
H: I have explained in the past about why emails are difficult why I can’t –
Client: No you haven’t. You haven’t!
H: I absolutely have.
Client: One of your stupid excuses why you couldn’t use emails was because it’s "your work". You never actually said to me “I can’t do emails because I feel tired or I'm doing this". You just lie more and more and more.
H: You hear what you want to hear.
Client: No that’s what you said! I got a good memory.
H: Yeah!
Client: Because “it’s your work” that’s why you can’t write emails. And not because you are tired. You never said you were tired. You never said you needed space. You should have said to me I'm home at this time and I really need some space. Because you know there are parts who are absolutely terrified when they are one their own. When there is no one in the house. When you are not in the house. Just knowing that you are in the house is going to, but you are resentful you don’t want to sooth, you don’t want to. You could have easily just said I will be home at this time but I need that time for myself and then we could have seen what happened. But you assume, “no that won’t work either.” Stop telling me that it’s my fault all the time. You’ve got your bit to play in this as well. And stop protecting yourself with “I’m standing firm” with boundaries. Stop protecting yourself like that. And just leaving me out of it. Because you are ok now. And this is exactly what happened. This is exactly the repeat. Because my mum protected herself “I can’t be bothered with this, put some "boundaries" in and just leave her. Just leave her with the abuser. And that’s what you are doing.
H: The abuser is in you X, it is not another person. When you were with your mother and father you were a child and your father was an abuser.
Client: You don’t understand. Right now I have no one, whereas before you were there. And that was really hopeful.
H: It wasn’t helping.
Client: It was. Why do you think all these parts came and talked and why do you think "the abuser" came? Because there was some trust that you were able to hold it.
H: The abuser is hell bound on destroying it.
Client: But there was some trust, there was something there –
H: The abuser IS HELLBEND ON DESTROYING IT
Client: (Inaudible) but now you totally stop it. All the work.
H: And that’s why we have to work with the abuser.
Client: Yes, I don’t –
H: We have to work with the abuser in you, you have to do that.
Client: I haven’t said that I don’t want to work like that but what you are doing is wrong.
H: Well it might be but it’s the only way that I can do it. I want to work with the abu-you. With your abuser. That is what I want to do.
Client: H, stop calling me an abuser.
H: I said with your abuser.
Client: Yes, stop that.
H: Why?
Client: Because I'm sick and tired of hearing it. You’ve made your point. You have made your point about me having an abusive part. You have made that point. What about your abuser? What about your abusive part in this? You said nothing all session about that.
H: This is your therapy X.
Client: But you are part of it aren’t you? You are playing your role in this.
H: I am the therapist.
Client: You are repeating something for me. You have got a part to play in this. Don’t take yourself out of it because that is what you are trying to do. With all these fucking "boundaries". You are trying to take yourself way out of this and it is not going to happen. You are in this with me. And you’ve got your part to play. ….. that is exactly what's happening…. You just want to cut yourself off….totally… I can’t believe that I actually said to someone who has trained for so many years, a psychoanalyst, you’ve got your part to play in this. “This is your therapy – it has nothing to do with me”
H: I didn’t say it had nothing to do with me
Client: Ok, “this is your therapy I’m the therapist” in a response to me telling you that you have got a part to play in this. You just ignore it and say “this is your therapy”. What kind of response is that? And now you’re thinking, “Oh there is another fault she puts on the list where I'm not able to do anything right.” It doesn’t matter what I say because everything I say you will say” that’s another fault I have”
H: Well you must admit there have rather been a lot of them today.
Client: And as long as you see that list of your faults and me telling you all these things because I want to make this list longer we are not going to move anywhere.
H: Laughs* No we are not, you’re right.
Client: Yes. And I’m not telling you these things because I want to make this list longer I’m telling you these things because of other things going on. I don’t enjoy putting you down. I don’t enjoy telling you “you have lied” I know exactly that that is not a nice thing especially if you are confronted with it. But I’m going to have to tell you. I have to and I can’t wrap it up because I’m angry. And maybe you can’t remember the times when I was glad when you did things for us. You can’t remember when I was grateful when you did kind things for us.
H: Of course I can. Yes I can.
Client: I wish you could see that this letter was written … is genuine. Because then maybe you would be able to see a different side to me and not just the abuser. Because seeing this letter as sarcastic and an attack on you obviously makes me an abuser. But it’s not written in a sarcastic way.
H: I haven’t seen any evidence of your happiness today.
Client: I'm not happy.
H: But the letter says that you are.
Client: Yes, because when I wrote this, I felt extremely "high". Because I feel so utterly hopeless. Probably. And I worked that out myself. You didn’t sit down with me and try to work this out with me.
H: Today there wouldn’t have been any point because there was there was no exchange able to go on today. We can’t seem to exchange anything today.
Client: We didn’t exchange anything today?
H: Well, we can’t seem to communicate with each other. It’s really not been a session where we have been able to engage in any kind of creative communication. It’s been very hard for you to hear me and for me to hear you.
Client: This hasn’t stopped yet has it? There are going to be many times – like you said – “and it’s not going to be the last time” and I know. Because you are still angry. And you are still resentful. And I'm going to have to listen to this every session I come back
H: Maybe it would be helpful to look at your own anger and resentment
Client: I’m looking at it.
H: Well maybe that might be for you to be a really important focus rather than focusing on mine
Client: Ok, I tell you what, I look at my anger, and you look at yours.
H: Fine, that’s absolutely fine! So next time you come you can talk about yours.
Client: And you can talk about yours.
H: No! Because it’s not my therapy!
Client: You need to talk about yours H because your anger is attacking me.
H: My anger is not attacking you X. It is your own anger that is actually coming back at you like a
flipping boomerang. It’s being hurled around the room and is rickesheing of every wall.
Client: No, because when you left and you send the email with the pictures, there was actually quite a lot of happiness. But then you decided not to give us any support you also decided to lie. So what do you expect us to do? Be happy? You telling me my anger is coming back like a boomerang –
H: I also came back before that to a list of all my faults and failings, all of that had gone completely out of the window because of supervision and the trust that you –
Client: Yes there were a lot of things that you did wrong H.
H: I know! I got a list of them!
Client: A lot of things.
H: Yes!
Client: And maybe you just can’t deal with the reality of it.
H: Well, maybe that’s true. Maybe that is how it is.
Client: I need to go now.
END
H: I wonder why you had to write it and couldn’t tell me.
Client: Because I'm too scared.
H: WHY are you SCARED?
Client: You don’t know why I would be scared?
H: No. You are scared as though I'm an abuser.
Client: You don’t have any idea why I would be scared?
H: No.
Client: Wow, that’s bad.
H: No, because in a way, it’s interesting that YOU are scared of ME. Because what I have done is actually stopped your abuser abusing me. That is not the same as me becoming the abuser.
Client: I'm not talking about you stopping the emails.
H: What are you talking about?
Client: I'm talking about the way you did it. The thoughtlessness, lack of feelings and it was a re-action, you didn’t discuss it with me. You didn’t explain.
H: I did explain.
Client: No you didn’t
H: I explained it very clearly.
Client: You didn’t. You explained it logically. You don’t see your abusive part in this. I can see mine but you can’t see yours.
H: Well yes but we are not allowed to talk about yours. It’s always turned around.
Client: How do you know we are not allowed to talk about it?
H: We are not allowed to talk about it.
Client: Says who?
H: Says you. Because always it is turned around to me.
Client: No.
H: It’s always turned around to me.
Client: No its not.
H: Just like it is right now.
Client: How? I didnt… I just said to you that I can see my abusive part in this but you can’t see yours.
H: And what I'm saying is that’s what happens every time that …
Client: You don’t have a clue what's going on right now because you are just trying to protect yourself.
H: That’s not all I'm trying to do, it’s part of what I'm trying to do.
Client: Yes it is, that is what you are trying to do right now. You just want to stay save and you are forgetting an important thing and that is me. Just that sentence “why would you be scared?” You can’t even hear your tone of voice is filled with resentment and negativity. “Why would you be scared?” There is no compassion, no curiosity. That’s not what it’s about. “Why would you be scared?” That sentence alone with that tone alone makes me scared. And I'm not even going to repeat all the other things you said to me. You can’t actually see by you telling me that I'm a bully you are the one who is bullying. And you actually put me in a corner now. And you are saying you are being pushed into a corner. You are the victim now. You are the total victim, just like M. “Oh X is so dangerous I am so scared” “Did she do anything?” “No, she would not do anything but I'm scared! She’s bad! But she wouldn’t do anything” When it was you who encouraged the phone calls. Who encouraged emails and now suddenly you had enough. You just say it like that without any kindness. You just had enough and you were full of resentments and angry and you used your control your power over me. That’s what you did. You used it. That makes you the bully and that makes you the abuser.
Client: 5.35 you’ve lost all humility. You have no humility. You are just raging you are angry and yes, that scares me. And that’s normal. Especially when every expression of my fear or my feelings is seen as a manipulation of some sort. If I talk or act I am being judged as manipulative if I don’t talk I am being judged as being manipulative. “Why can’t you talk? That’s not going to get rid of the fear! Why are you scared?” You should really look at yourself.
H: I think perhaps in the circumstances given as you feel as you do it sounds as though you really would be better of finding another therapist. Because I don’t see if that is how you feel that leaves any more room to work.
Client: You want me to feel differently then you could work with me?
H: How can I work with you if you have such a low opinion of me?
Client: You have the low opinion of me.
H: No! Don’t turn it around again. I said “how on earth can you work with me when you have such a low opinion of me.”
Client: I'm here aren’t I?
H: Yes.
Client: And I'm trying.
H: How can you work with me when I am absolutely the end, I’m an abuser, I have no feelings, I’m heartless. How on earth can you bring yourself and your vulnerability to work with me?
Client: What I'm saying is, maybe we can look at it and try to work out what is happening here. I'm trying to. But all I seem to get from you is defensiveness.
H: I haven’t opened my mouth and you are continuing to tell me what I am. And all of the things you are telling me suggests to me that there is no future for a therapy. Because if I'm an abuser , if I have no feelings if I have no compassion if I have no care if I have no thought if I'm just defensive and protecting myself then there is no space for us to work. And that’s the reality.
Client: No, the reality is something else.
H: If that is what you think of me then there is no way we can work.
Client: I have come here because I’m hoping I can understand what is happening to me.
H: It sounds like you have come here to tell me everything that I am and that I have done and to put everything onto me.
Client: Well, excuse me for being a client. Excuse me for expressing how I feel. Excuse me for feeling that you are useless.
H: You are telling me what I am. You are telling me what I am.
Client: How do you want me to say it? ‘I feel that you are…this and that.’ Does that make you feel better?
H: I don’t want to feel better.
Client: You do because you are complaining about how I’m telling you that –
H: I'm saying I don’t think we can work together under those circumstances. I'm not complaining
Client: That’s another threat. You are threatening me again!
H: No I'm not threatening you!
Client: You are saying that if I don’t do what you are telling me to do and I don’t talk to you the way you want me to talk to you then you are not going to –
H: I AM SAYING IF YOU BELIEVE THOSE things we cannot work together.
Client: You can’t see what you’ve done, can you. You can’t see what you’ve actually done. You don’t want to see it. And now you are blaming me for this
H: I'm not blaming you for anything.
Client: You are so contradicting.
H: I'm not blaming you for anything. It is you who is blaming me.
Client: You just told me if I can’t see you in a different light-
H: How on earth-
Client: Can I finish!
H: HOW CAN YOU WORK WITH AN ABUSER?! How can you possibly work with an abuser?
Client: You are just fucking clueless, aren’t you.
H: No I'm not.
Client: How can you work with an abuser? So you thought the "abuser" would never come in here did you?
H: No, not that I'm an abuser!
(10.55 Inaudible)
Client: So suddenly this is not the work anymore?
H: What calling me an abuser is not the work? No it isn’t. Never was.
Client: Ok. I was so wrong about you.
H: Perhaps you were.
Client: Basically you don’t want me to "abuse" you, and you don’t want to be called an abuser. So basically what you
are saying is, you don’t want me to be the abuser and you don’t want me to see you as the abuser. Where is the abuser supposed to be, where?
H: I'm not saying you can’t be the abuser. Not at all. In here that’s absolutely right.
Client: H, you are just gone. You are gone I'm telling you now. Have you got supervision? Are you talking about this to anyone? Because you lost the plot
H: Well then you need to find another therapist
Client: Yes, and I will have another therapist that failed me.
H: Well maybe that needs to be thought about.
Client: What, just say what you want to say. That needs to be thought about!
H: What is happening that it keeps failing?
Client: You know you actually said the same things that M said. Exactly the same things. But strangely enough when I came and talked to you about M you were shocked,
H: I was shocked that she took you to the hospital.
Client: No. Ok.
H: I was shocked about the emails she sent you. I was shocked how she handled it.
Client: Well, you are handling it exactly the same way.
H: No I'm not.
Client: Yes you are.
H: Laughs*, no I'm not.
Client: Yes you are.
H: No I'm not
Client: And this could easily go in front of a complaint because –
H: So you want to destroy me like you wanted to destroy M?
Client: No! Because that’s why I'm here! But you keep pushing me away. I want to sort it out and you keep pushing me away. I said about mediation, “I’m not going to mediation that’s not how I work” I'm sitting here wanting to work it out “I don’t think this therapy is for you because you see me as the abuser” so you keep pushing me away what else is there left for me to do? What do you want me to do, do as I'm told? You are not trying to help me understand this. There is not one bit of you right now and in the last few days that wants to help me understand.
H: That isn’t true!
Client: Why are you not helping me then?
H: I tried on Monday.
Client: On Monday?
H: 14.00 Yes.
Client: 15.00 You are falling into the same thing that M did. And I’m going to understand what is going to happen to me.
H: I’d like for that to happen too.
Client: No, you are telling me that if I don’t feel differently about you then this therapy is no longer for me. These are your words. So don’t mind fuck me and tell me ‘that’s what I would like to happen too’; you like it to happen if I behave and feel for you the way you want me to feel for you.
H: No. No. I don’t care how you feel for me. It’s just I'm saying to you if you truly believe that I am the things that you listed then I can’t think how anything can be therapeutic, if you really believe that.
Client: That’s why I am in therapy. That’s why I’m therapy. To see you differently one day. That’s why I go to therapy. I don’t come to therapy to stroke you I don’t come to therapy to make you feel good.
H: I don’t want to feel good. That isn’t what I'm saying.
Client: You want me to make you feel good in some ways.
H: No I don’t want you to make me feel good.
Client: Well I'm not feeling good about you.
H: I don’t expect you to feel GOOD about me. That’s not the same thing. You can be angry with me you can hate me. But actually if you truly believe that I am the things that you said that is very different from saying ‘you hurt me H I’m angry with you, I hate you’
Client: That’s exactly what M said ‘it’s a lot easier if you come into the session saying M I'm angry with you because you went on holiday for a week’ ok, I make a mental note, next time that happens and I am overwhelmed with feelings I just try to calm myself down and say it like that just to please you. Just so you won’t tell me to go away.
H: I am pointing out the difference. That’s all I'm doing.
Client: And you don’t think I know that? You don’t think that I would actually love to like you? You don’t actually think that I would like to see you as trustworthy, no? You don’t think I would love to do that? Because my life would be hell of a lot better if I did. It’s like I’m doing it on purpose!
H: 17.43 I know you are not doing it on purpose
Client: 18.30 What does that tell you, even though I think like that and feel like that about you I’m still coming. I’m still here I’m still trying. You have given up now. I’m trying despite your bullying, your threatening. In a way that’s my attachment. Now I come like a little lamb to the slaughter house. And every single time I sit here I have to listen to your snidy remarks.
H: X you are not being a little lamb.
Client: I can be an "abuser" too but you don’t see that. You only see the abuser.
H: Is that right?! I only see the abuser which is why I have spent so long sitting there being kind being thoughtful being understanding being gentle with a very vulnerable self I know there is a very vulnerable self.
Client: Haven’t you asked yourself why I am still coming here whereas before I used to miss sessions when you were kind. But strangely enough now, I’m coming every single session.
H: In fact the abuser sees kindness as weakness.
Client: That might be so. So what am I going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Tell me to not come back anymore? That’s your solution. Don’t come back here anymore because it’s driving me mad!
H: I haven’t said that! I HAVENT SAID NO I HAVENT! You have twisted it!
Client: I know what you said you said if I can’t feel for you in a different way then this is not the right therapy.
H: No, I said this can’t be therapeutic if you truly believe the things about me that you said .
Client: So, what are you asking from me? You are asking from me .. you are asking me to--
H: This has to be a repetition and unless we can think about it together about the abuser within you--
Client: How exactly do you want me to find the space to think when you threatened me with the end of my therapy?
How am I supposed to have headspace to think about it?
H: X, nothing has changed today. You have continued today not to allow space. There is no space for thought there is no space for me to speak.
Client: Because I'm feeling right now. And maybe you don’t like that! But I’m feeling and I don’t give a shit about your interpretations and your thoughts!
H: Tell me what it is your feeling!
Client: I don’t want to tell you anything right now because you are not a safe person. Because of the things you have just told me.
H: Well you said that each time you come. “I’m not save because –
Client: What does that tell you about you?
H: It tells me what I just said. If that is the case—
Client: But what does that tell you about you? Maybe you should think ‘what am I doing wrong?’ you told me so many bad things the last few sessions.
H: 21. 43 And there are more to come!
Client: See, there you go again.
H: Well there are.
Client: There you go again, where is the compassion in that?
H: Well how can I give you compassion right now when actually what you want to do is be angry and abuse me.
Client: I don’t want to abuse you! I'm angry!
H: Yes, you are angry and you want to hurt and lash out. And that is what you want to do.
Client: You know what, and I'm allowed to do that.
H: Yes, I'm not saying you are not.
Client: Well, what's the big deal then? I'm allowed to be angry and lash out. So I'm not even allowed to lash out in the session anymore?
H: I didn’t say you weren’t.
Client: Why are you mentioning it then? Why do you call me an abuser when I’m angry? Every time I’m angry you call me an abuser now. You are the one who is being abusive. You are!
H: That’s very interesting how each time it’s turned around.
Client: By me being angry and expressing my anger and you calling me an abuser then you are being the one who is --
H: X, there is an abuser in you
Client: Just like there is in you.
H: Who causes your life to be so damaged and disruptive
Client: Just like there is in you.
H: No, not like there is in me.
Client: Well he is acting, she is acting now believe me.
H: No this is not abuse! I am trying to help you to see. That there is something in you that we need to attend to.
Client: No, you are not. Because the very first thing you said when I came into therapy today or the second thing you said was ‘if I can’t think or feel differently about you then the therapy is ending’ so don’t tell me you are trying to explain something to me because you are not.
H: I did not say that!
Client: Yes you did!
H: No I didn’t!
Client: There’s something wrong with you...
H: I'm saying that if you truly believe that I am all of the things that you have just said then you need to find another therapist.
Client: See, there you go.
H: If you truly believe is what I said.
Client: What things that I believe about you?
H: Well if you can’t remember the things you have said!
Client: Man, this is no fucking game. I'm just asking you a normal question. What things?
H: Well you know what you believe in!
Client: Yes I know what I believe about you but what is it that is upsetting you?
H: I'm not upset!
Client: Fucking hell, you can’t even admit that you are upset.
H: 24.35 For crying out loud! Enough! Enough! This is mad!
Client: No you are mad! I'm sitting here being angry and even that’s not right. When I'm quiet that’s not right. When I do this that’s not right. What do you want me to do? The only repeat that you are seeing right now is that I’m the abuser.
H: Or a victim!
Client: Yes, that’s all you can see. But you can’t see anything else because you are so caught up in your own bruised ego that’s what you are trying to look after. “Sitting here with you being kind, many, many years”, “bend over for you backwards”, just like M, “look how ungrateful you are!” Next thing you are going to tell me is you are going to move house. Madness? Yes, that’s exactly what it is H. Welcome to my world.
27.30 I can put my hands up and say yes I’ve done things, because suddenly there is just me as a whole now isn’t there. Cos before there were the others. But right now, there is just me isn’t there. That’s another thing you have just totally forgotten about. So maybe I’m just making this up too? Maybe I am lying after all; maybe I’m just being manipulative. But I can always say, I feel always guilty and ashamed and responsible for everything and when I do a bad thing I always feel bad about it. But you, you can’t say, you have no humility. You can’t see your part in this. You can’t see how horrible you were. What terrible comments you made. And the way you said it. You can’t see it. You are ‘staying firm!’ staying firm in being ignorant and arrogant.
29.07 Telling me that I’m lashing out when you are the one lashing out. You are the one threatening me. You are the one who suddenly withdrew all the support. Everything. Absolutely everything. You have gone from one extreme to the other. Then you are telling me that I’m lashing out.
And why did you ask me “why couldn’t you tell me this in person?” why? What were the thoughts behind that I wonder. Instead of talking to me about what I have just written to you, you want to know why I can’t tell you this. So there you have it. Already you are coming from a totally different place. You are not interested in how I feel. You are interested in “what is she trying to do now?” what game is she trying to play now” why is she not telling me in person? Why is she writing it down? You are the mad one here. You have my madness I’m telling you. And THIS I wrote because I was feeling something. Or not feeling something. I didn’t write it on paper to upset you. I didn’t write it on paper to manipulate you. I have just written this and all you are interested in is why can’t you tell me that face to face. Why can’t you tell me that in words? And that’s exactly what I mean. You have no compassion for my feelings, no interest in my feelings.
H: 31. 20 it is full of complete sarcasm. It is a completely sarcastic. This is not done to communicate! Its sarcastic, it is NOT expressing your feelings it is actually saying “Oh I’m so happy H!”
Client: But I am!
H: Oh, you sound it!
Client: No, I'm angry now because of the things you did but I'm happy about that you have pushed me away—
H: I don’t believe that. I think that is absolute nonsense because you are so angry now.
Client: Yes I’m angry about other things but I’m happy that I don’t have to feel so miserable. That I actually cut it off, I don’t know what I did with it and I don’t care. But I don’t have to feel it right now. And that is actually saving my life and X’s life and X’s. And I wasn’t being sarcastic! And when I re read it I thought “I bet H thinks that sarcastic” but that is actually how I felt at the time when I wrote this. But there you go again, you are being suspicious of how I feel and what I say. You don’t believe me what I say what I bring.
H: Not when it’s expressed with such fury no.
Client: This is how I felt at the time I wrote this
H: Ok
Client: Do you want me to swear on X’s life? I swear on X’s life this is how I felt when I wrote this. See. It doesn’t matter what I say or do everything is going to be, you are suspicious of everything now. And then you say “I don’t trust you” I remember I said “H we need to build up trust again” “Trust?! Trust?!” scoffing at me like, the disgust in your voice. “You don’t trust me! You let everyone else support you! I can’t support you, you don’t trust me!”
H: Well that’s what you told me.
Client: Yes, that’s what I told you H because this is what's going on in my head. This is what therapy is about isn’t it? I tell you what I feel what I think and then we work together with it. But you don’t go “Ugh! Trust! You don’t trust me!” like, like, I mean, why do I have to explain this to you? And when I said to you, why didn’t you at least leave me some helplines, you have offered support before when you went away like texting or other things and now you have gone to the extreme of offering skype when I was in Dubai and suddenly nothing. Not even “here phone this helpline up.” Nothing, you just left like that. Did you want me to be happy about that? And then you lied. And you said you were coming home Monday night and you didn’t. You lied. And you were found out and that made you even more angry. And then you thought “so that’s it. I’ve had enough.”
You shouldn’t have lied. I should be suspicious of you and I am. But everything I do, I always do it and you can see what I’m doing I don’t lie or play games like that - you obviously do.
Client: 36.0 “You are a counsellor now!” You know how sarcastic you are? And this has exactly happened when I told you about my training and remember I told you you want to destroy me? Well you are doing it. You are doing it now. Because it all started when I told you about something precious. And it’s unfair from you to demand of me that I treat you in any other way than in a mistrustful way after what you have said to me. Yes you’ve been kind and I’m not saying that you are not but you have done other things too and you don’t want to see them.
Client: 40.17 Have you any idea what the impact is on me when you say if you can’t do this or that or if you think like this or then you can’t continue this therapy. Have you actually thought about that sentence?
Client: Or are you just not going to talk to me now?
H: I haven’t anything to say.
Client: Right. Ok
H: There is nothing to engage with at the moment.
Client: I’m asking you a question.
H: It’s not one that, in a sense, it doesn’t deserve an answer.
Client: My question doesn’t deserve an answer?
H: No, THAT question doesn’t deserve an answer. Because I have nothing to say that would, if that is a question that you really asking me, do I not think about what I’m saying, then of course I do.
Client: No, I'm asking you have you ever thought about the impact it has on me when you say--
H: Yes of course. And it’s supposed to. Because it’s how it is.
I do think of the impact, of course I think of the impact. I was stating how it is. I was actually telling you that if you truly believe those things then this therapy can’t help you. I can’t help you if you truly believe I’m an abuser. Because all it will do is continue that has been going on all your life. And if you truly believe that I am an abuser, then that is what I am saying. That is all that I was saying. There was supposed to be an impact.
Client: You know just little sentences like your question doesn’t deserve an answer. That is emotional abuse in my books.
H: It might be emotional abuse in your book but you know very well, you DO know it, you DO know that I do think about what I say
Client: No H I don’t. Because the last few days, before I would have, yes, but the last few days, you have totally gone. You are gone. So when I’m asking you have you ever thought about the impact, I do want to know.
H: Ok, the answer is yes.
Client: So, you thought about it, after the first time you said it, and then a few days later you said it again. You threatened me again.
H: It’s not a threat
Client: It is a threat
H: It isn’t
Client: It is a threat
H: Well it feels like it
Client: It is a threat because you are threatening me because have you any idea I have been coming here for 4 years and the “others”, which are totally gone now, and the attachment they have, threatening them as well, because you are telling them don’t call and don’t email—
H: Unless we deal with the abuser nothing is ever going to change.
Client: You just made it worse, because you let the "abuser" win. Because now you left everyone with the abuser. They are not even able to tell you anything about it. Because you wanted to be left!
H: No!
Client: You wanted to be left alone!
H: No! I want someone to be able to come here who isn’t on the abusers side. And if there isn’t anybody who can come here who isn’t on the abusers side
Client: What everyone is abusive?
H: No, either frightened of the abuser or ___ by the abuser, I can’t do it alone.
Client: I’m here and I’m trying to understand what's going on
H: Well I’m just telling you that’s what I’m trying to say
Client: Ok. Ok well. That’s fine. And I’m here and I’m trying to understand. And I’m not on the abuser's side. Because like I told you many times now that I have my thing to play in this as well but you are not hearing me
H: I do hear you
Client: But you can’t say what your part in this is. Your part is a big part as well and a very abusive part as well. What you’ve done by taking all these things away you can’t see what you have actually done. There is no concern about my well-being about X’s well-being. None. And if you know that the abuser is so bad and you know that this is going to impact me in a bad way then why not at least say it in a different way and try to help me understand and say and I’m not even going to tell you how to say it, but there are so many different ways you could have said this but you weren’t able to because you were raging. You were fucking angry. And your madness has stopped now yes, probably. So you’re ok now. And that’s what this is all about ‘cos you sure enough didn’t do that for me.
Client: 47.11 You can’t see the hopelessness in this letter. That’s underneath this sudden, “oh I’m so hopeful I’m so hopeful”; and I was, really, really hopeful. And I still am. I totally cut myself off from you because of the hopelessness. Because I feel there is absolutely nothing to find here for me. But you take that personal as well.
H: It’s not that I take it personal but I’m saying to you if that is really the case, that’s what I’m saying. If you say that there is nothing here for you, I’m not here for you, that I’m the abuser, I have no feelings, I have no care, if you really think that then that is all I’m saying, I’m saying to you , why put yourself through this to sit here with such an awful person?
Client: Because it happens to me with every therapist. Because it is what happened to me in my past. This is what it’s about, it’s not about you. Or me. Now. This is what happened to me as a child. That’s why and to the next therapist I will be there for another 4 years then it will happen again. Then they send me away again. That’s why I’m still here.
Client: There is no symbolic thinking in this room anymore. And that is dangerous for me, yes. Because it actually means that you can’t help me.
H: Well symbolic thinking would mean and understanding the transference that actually in the transference I am either experienced as an abuser or a victim and you are either the abuser or victim. As if. So that it would be as if I were an abusive person, as if I didn’t care, not that actually I don’t, that would be symbolic thinking.
Client: Yes. But then it is not just about transference.
H: But that is symbolic.
Client: Yes, and that’s what I mean. You can’t see that now.
H: No, you’re telling me there is no symbolic thought and I’m suggesting that perhaps it is very difficult right now when you are feeling so angry now to have symbolic thinking.
Client: No I can. You are the one who thinks concretely. “You have done this and you have done that” “why are you doing this and why are you doing that?” - concrete. Every single time you say something to me.
Client: Except when you want to tell me I’m a bully or an abuser, then symbolic because then you are having a good way of telling me that I am being a bully by explaining it that way. But every other thing you are just concrete.
H: Right
Client: And you can’t understand why I could be scared that in itself is a scary thought. Because what else are you going to take away from me. What else are you going to punish me with when I do something or feel something that you don’t agree with, do you actually want me to come here now and feel free to talk and express how I feel after you have done that? And you know last session, you know what it felt like when you said “you act as though I threatened you.” This is exactly like what my mum and dad used to be like after in the morning, after the night before. When terrible things happened. “What's the matter you act as though something terrible happened” and then if I dared to even say something terrible did happen I was shut down. I was bullied to be silenced.
H: X I haven’t abused you.
Client: You have bullied me to be silent. You have done something terrible.
H: No I haven’t. You have not been bullied into silence
Client: Yes I have
H: No because you have not been silent here today. You are not bullied into silence.
Client: I am
H: No you are not
Client: Yes I am
H: You are being very vocal
Client: Yes I have been vocal because –
H: So you are not being bullied into silence I am creating a boundary that says--
Client: But last session I wasn’t able to talk
H: But I won’t be abused. Yes what happened to you as a child was unforgivable
Client: Neither will I be abused.
H: So neither of us will be. And that will be good.
Client: Yes but I can see my part in it you can’t.
H: Setting my boundaries firmly is not abuse
Client: I’m not talking about your "boundaries"
H: Yes you are
Client: No I’m not
H: Yes you have been. You have been saying what I have done to you is abuse.
Client: Yes, how you have done it. With no thought about anything. The only thing you had in mind was yourself.
And your own agendas. That what was in your mind and still is to this day.
H: Yes, I am keeping the boundaries firm and safe.
Client: That’s fine, you can do that but I’m talking about the feeling bit. That you have missed. And the impact. “I’m staying firm” I know you are staying firm H. You have told me that many, many times.
H: 54.58 So actually are you saying that you only want to come on a Monday now? Is that what you are saying?
Client: Yes.
H: Right. You actually mean that? You want to do that?
Client: Yes I mean that.
H: Ok
Client: Will give you a break as well.
H: No, no, you are not doing it for me,
Client: No I’m not doing it for you I am doing it for me, but what I’m saying is it will give you a break as well.
H: I don’t need a break.
Client: Really.
H: I don’t need a break. It’s not me who is asking you to come once a week.
Client: Yes I’m coming once a week because I want to.
H: Right
Client: That’s what I just said but that doesn’t mean that I can’t say it will give you a break too.
H: You can say whatever you like.
Client: You are so defensive
H: No I’m not defensive!
Client: Yes you are!
H: I'm just asking, what is your intention.
Client: I know that is the question but the other things you are just being defensive.
H: Well it’s really difficult to find a way in to be anything at the moment when there is a bombardment at everything I say which is twisted and turned and taken and abused and battered. There is nothing I can say that will make a difference today. Absolutely nothing.
Client: You have been saying that for a long time H “nothing I say will make a difference!”
H: See this is the point, what am I to say, every time I try to put something
Client: Where is your humility?
H: What humility? Do you want me to crawl on the floor? What do you want me to do?!
Client: That’s exactly your problem you don’t have any humility.
H: No - that’s another one on the list of my faults that I’m not. I have no feelings –
Client: Right now you have no humility.
H: The accusations that you have thrown at me today one after the other the list of my failings are quite phenomenal. They are quite phenomenal.
Client: You just can’t see it.
H: Well I can. I can see that actually it must be appalling for you because I can’t imagine how it must be to sit with somebody who is like that I can’t imagine. I know that I wouldn’t!
Client: Well, that’s why you don’t want me here!
H: I wouldn’t go actually to a therapist that’s what I’m saying. I wouldn’t go to a therapist who actually I believed harbored all those feelings.
Client: So why do you think I’m going then?
H: Sorry?
Client: Why do you think I still come here?
H: You tell me X.
Client: No I would like you to tell me
H: I don’t know why. You tell me why
Client: No, you tell me why. I asked you.
H: Because it’s your imagination.
Client: But it’s YOUR little fantasies why I wrote this letter, why I—
H: I DON’T KNOW X I’m telling you the answer is I don’t know but you can’t hear me!
Client: Yes I can, but I don’t believe you because you lied to me before. You lied.
H: So you see, this is why it is impossible for me to say anything because whenever I say something it’s a lie.
Client: Maybe you should say “yes I have lied”
H: No, I’m not going to! Not on that particular score. Absolutely not. I said I was coming home on Monday night because that’s when I was going to be available from.
Client: Yes, so you lied.
H: Yes. No I didn’t lie.
Client: Yes you did.
H: No. I didn’t lie because I have actually the right to say when I’m going to be available.
Client: Yes you do, but you shouldn’t lie. Because you will always be found out. You could have easily said to me I’m coming home at this time because you know how important it is
H: No I said I’m coming back, I told ALL my patients I am back on Monday in order to cover myself because last time my flight was delayed 24 hours and this time I said I’m coming back on Monday night. That’s when I’m starting work. And I don’t have to justify that
Client: No you don’t have to justify but you shouldn’t lie.
H: I can tell you whatever I like about when I’m going to be at home. That is my business not yours!
Client: But you shouldn’t have told me at all then. Why tell me?
H: Well I'm sorry but that is my prerogative. If I say I will be available from such and such –
Client: No you didn’t say “available” –
H: I said “back”
Client: Yes Monday night.
H: And I was back Monday night.
Client: No
H: I was here but I was back in my work mode.
Client: What's wrong with saying I will be back such and such time –
H: Because I wanted to make sure that I had a little bit of space
Client: That’s what I mean. So basically don’t trust me that I –
H: No I don’t because I know how difficult it is
Client: But you have never actually tried it before. You have never actually sat me down and said “X I really need some time because I am tired or whatever and I need –
H: I have!
Client: No you haven’t.
H: X I have.
Client: You haven’t!
H: I have explained in the past about why emails are difficult why I can’t –
Client: No you haven’t. You haven’t!
H: I absolutely have.
Client: One of your stupid excuses why you couldn’t use emails was because it’s "your work". You never actually said to me “I can’t do emails because I feel tired or I'm doing this". You just lie more and more and more.
H: You hear what you want to hear.
Client: No that’s what you said! I got a good memory.
H: Yeah!
Client: Because “it’s your work” that’s why you can’t write emails. And not because you are tired. You never said you were tired. You never said you needed space. You should have said to me I'm home at this time and I really need some space. Because you know there are parts who are absolutely terrified when they are one their own. When there is no one in the house. When you are not in the house. Just knowing that you are in the house is going to, but you are resentful you don’t want to sooth, you don’t want to. You could have easily just said I will be home at this time but I need that time for myself and then we could have seen what happened. But you assume, “no that won’t work either.” Stop telling me that it’s my fault all the time. You’ve got your bit to play in this as well. And stop protecting yourself with “I’m standing firm” with boundaries. Stop protecting yourself like that. And just leaving me out of it. Because you are ok now. And this is exactly what happened. This is exactly the repeat. Because my mum protected herself “I can’t be bothered with this, put some "boundaries" in and just leave her. Just leave her with the abuser. And that’s what you are doing.
H: The abuser is in you X, it is not another person. When you were with your mother and father you were a child and your father was an abuser.
Client: You don’t understand. Right now I have no one, whereas before you were there. And that was really hopeful.
H: It wasn’t helping.
Client: It was. Why do you think all these parts came and talked and why do you think "the abuser" came? Because there was some trust that you were able to hold it.
H: The abuser is hell bound on destroying it.
Client: But there was some trust, there was something there –
H: The abuser IS HELLBEND ON DESTROYING IT
Client: (Inaudible) but now you totally stop it. All the work.
H: And that’s why we have to work with the abuser.
Client: Yes, I don’t –
H: We have to work with the abuser in you, you have to do that.
Client: I haven’t said that I don’t want to work like that but what you are doing is wrong.
H: Well it might be but it’s the only way that I can do it. I want to work with the abu-you. With your abuser. That is what I want to do.
Client: H, stop calling me an abuser.
H: I said with your abuser.
Client: Yes, stop that.
H: Why?
Client: Because I'm sick and tired of hearing it. You’ve made your point. You have made your point about me having an abusive part. You have made that point. What about your abuser? What about your abusive part in this? You said nothing all session about that.
H: This is your therapy X.
Client: But you are part of it aren’t you? You are playing your role in this.
H: I am the therapist.
Client: You are repeating something for me. You have got a part to play in this. Don’t take yourself out of it because that is what you are trying to do. With all these fucking "boundaries". You are trying to take yourself way out of this and it is not going to happen. You are in this with me. And you’ve got your part to play. ….. that is exactly what's happening…. You just want to cut yourself off….totally… I can’t believe that I actually said to someone who has trained for so many years, a psychoanalyst, you’ve got your part to play in this. “This is your therapy – it has nothing to do with me”
H: I didn’t say it had nothing to do with me
Client: Ok, “this is your therapy I’m the therapist” in a response to me telling you that you have got a part to play in this. You just ignore it and say “this is your therapy”. What kind of response is that? And now you’re thinking, “Oh there is another fault she puts on the list where I'm not able to do anything right.” It doesn’t matter what I say because everything I say you will say” that’s another fault I have”
H: Well you must admit there have rather been a lot of them today.
Client: And as long as you see that list of your faults and me telling you all these things because I want to make this list longer we are not going to move anywhere.
H: Laughs* No we are not, you’re right.
Client: Yes. And I’m not telling you these things because I want to make this list longer I’m telling you these things because of other things going on. I don’t enjoy putting you down. I don’t enjoy telling you “you have lied” I know exactly that that is not a nice thing especially if you are confronted with it. But I’m going to have to tell you. I have to and I can’t wrap it up because I’m angry. And maybe you can’t remember the times when I was glad when you did things for us. You can’t remember when I was grateful when you did kind things for us.
H: Of course I can. Yes I can.
Client: I wish you could see that this letter was written … is genuine. Because then maybe you would be able to see a different side to me and not just the abuser. Because seeing this letter as sarcastic and an attack on you obviously makes me an abuser. But it’s not written in a sarcastic way.
H: I haven’t seen any evidence of your happiness today.
Client: I'm not happy.
H: But the letter says that you are.
Client: Yes, because when I wrote this, I felt extremely "high". Because I feel so utterly hopeless. Probably. And I worked that out myself. You didn’t sit down with me and try to work this out with me.
H: Today there wouldn’t have been any point because there was there was no exchange able to go on today. We can’t seem to exchange anything today.
Client: We didn’t exchange anything today?
H: Well, we can’t seem to communicate with each other. It’s really not been a session where we have been able to engage in any kind of creative communication. It’s been very hard for you to hear me and for me to hear you.
Client: This hasn’t stopped yet has it? There are going to be many times – like you said – “and it’s not going to be the last time” and I know. Because you are still angry. And you are still resentful. And I'm going to have to listen to this every session I come back
H: Maybe it would be helpful to look at your own anger and resentment
Client: I’m looking at it.
H: Well maybe that might be for you to be a really important focus rather than focusing on mine
Client: Ok, I tell you what, I look at my anger, and you look at yours.
H: Fine, that’s absolutely fine! So next time you come you can talk about yours.
Client: And you can talk about yours.
H: No! Because it’s not my therapy!
Client: You need to talk about yours H because your anger is attacking me.
H: My anger is not attacking you X. It is your own anger that is actually coming back at you like a
flipping boomerang. It’s being hurled around the room and is rickesheing of every wall.
Client: No, because when you left and you send the email with the pictures, there was actually quite a lot of happiness. But then you decided not to give us any support you also decided to lie. So what do you expect us to do? Be happy? You telling me my anger is coming back like a boomerang –
H: I also came back before that to a list of all my faults and failings, all of that had gone completely out of the window because of supervision and the trust that you –
Client: Yes there were a lot of things that you did wrong H.
H: I know! I got a list of them!
Client: A lot of things.
H: Yes!
Client: And maybe you just can’t deal with the reality of it.
H: Well, maybe that’s true. Maybe that is how it is.
Client: I need to go now.
END
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