I recorded the second session with this Jungian analyst G (who had over 20 years "experience")
I was very fearful, quiet, unable to make eye contact. All through the session, both, analyst and I didnt raise our voices.
I'd already had one session with G in which she kept asking me what had happened in my previous analysis with H. I did not answer her questions in the first session and this is the beginning of session number two:
Silence
You know I dont want to stay here if you dont want to work with me. Because the last therapist I was referred to told me in the second session that she had decided against wirking with me. So I think, if you dont want to work with me either, you might as well tell me now.
It's not so much that, I think it ummm, I ummm, I have concerns, thoughts around. It's it's ummm, because you have been refered to me, because you are doing your diploma and seeing, umm clients, It's rather different to you just coming... for therapy. And I think my concern IS about ummmm therapy for you when, you know, when you ARE doing THAT.
Silence
I am confused about that.
Confused.
Yes, because I thought, I was under the illusion that therapy was actually my time...
Yes.
But, ...it is not. Because I am being judged and assessed. On what basis I dont know. Maybe you were even asked to do it....
I wasnt asked.
I am actually getting that paranoid now that I cant even be myself. I cant be myself in the one place where I should be able to be myself.
It...I....In what way cant you be yourself here?
Because, well you just said it, it's different isnt it.
Well. ya, ummm, ya, ya, ummm, thats the the inital thing and I think you ARE picking up on something we have tried to explore a bit last time. With what happened with the previous therapist. And Im not really clear about it.
I dont know... but even if I did know, Im not even sure I could tell you yet because I dont even know you and to be honest I had bad experiences with therapists. So I dont, I am here and I want to try but Im not able to... It is like everyone expects me to, because I am a trainee counsellor and I should be able to talk about it and I should be able to tell you and umm, I am not like that.
How would you see yourself?
I cant tell you how I see myself because I need to be sure that it wont... um... that I can be myself here. Not to be judged.
Silence
I thought that this was how therapy works... I was under the illusion thats how it worked...
You had all those years with H (last analyst), an INTENSIVE therapy, you had A LOT of experience with therapy
Yes?
long Silence
So you must have some idea how therapy works?
I know what works for ME...
Silence
I am .... Im....
Silence
I dont know what to say, I did ask them not to tell you what happened. I wanted to tell you myself ...in my own time.
I, I, I DID say to you last time the only thing that I was told was that you had a therapist, ended with a therapist and had a break, that was all I was told.
And I am still not clear ummmm what happened with the main therapist who was H, who you saw a LONG time, because, you know, thinking about what is best for YOU. and I am NOT clear about why it ended.
I ended it. I had to end it.
Because?
Because, ummm, this you know.... ummm, I dont understand why I cant talk about this in my own time? And why I need to tell you NOW, I dont understand it...
Im curious about why you dont understand.
I DO understand. I understand what happened between H and me but I dont understand why it is expected of me to tell you what happened right away.
To help me understand.
Yes, but what about me?
Yes, what about you?
What about me and my fears and my pain and my difficulty and my humiliation and shame?
Yes?
Well, thats not really OK is it because Im a trainee counsellor I should be talking about it straight away and be able to tell you and I shouldnt really be feeling this way.
It's not that you SHOULDNT. It's, I think, I need to understand and make some sense of what happened and what is happenieng NOW.
long silence
H acted out my projections...
Can you tell me what you mean by that
H became the abuser...
How did she come the abuser?
Because of what she said and what she did....
You see, this is why I have concerns.
I dont understand your concerns.
Because it is not like you just came to me and WANTING therapy, WANTING a therapist. You have come to me because you were REFERRED to me. So I have some responsibility to take on, because you ARE doing the diploma and working as a counsellor
Yes, but I feel that is my supervisor's job, and my tutors job
It is their job TOO but it's also... I..... I am concerned and I think partly the concern is .. when you say you "dont know" and you dont want to talk about it, it feels very impossible to THINK about whereas... when you are TRAINING to BE a counsellor, which involves THINKING about things and trying to understand,
Yes, but can you not... I mean.... I can be one way in here and another outside
But those two are not totally different, the you who is here goes outside.
Yes, but I dont trust you.
long silence
And I think that, that you are saying last time you didnt trust your therapist which FEELS like your trust has been betrayed and now it is very difficult to trust anybody. And you dont trust me, I understand. And I think it, if, it makes it very difficult because I think you KNOW that I have concerns, that I HAVE reservations. and that I ummm....
No, I dont understand.
I think you DO!
Right....reservations....?
Well, umm....CONCERNS about you working as a counsellor when... here.... you know, I am trying to understand something and you... you....
I could bring you in my essays?
It's not that, it's...it's....
*Sigh*, thats the thing, I am not allowed to do it MY way. In my own pace. I am not allowed to do that.
It FEELS like someone is not allowing you...
No, I AM not allowed, because you are wanting me to tell you what happened between H and I otherwise you have reservations and concerns...
Yes!
Well, yes, I dont understand why.... I dont understand why I am not allowed to do it MY way. Trust has to be EARNED. Why should I come here and trust you and tell you everything that has happened?
You didnt have to tell me.
I do because if I dont, you are going to send me away. If I dont do what you tell me to do, if I dont say the things you want me to say, then you are going to tell me that you dont want to work with me.
long silence
I mean, I am not asking the impossible...I am asking to do it at my own pace... and every colleague that I am talking to, and I am asking them about their therapy, whether they are being asked about their client work, they tell me "no". Never. But me, because my therapy broke down, and I have been referred to you, its different for me. I have no right for my feelings...i have no right to do it my way....I have to perform now.
Thats what you FEEL.
That is what I am hearing.
You FEEL as if I am demanding of you to perform.
Yes, because if I dont, you have your concerns and reservations.
I DO have concerns.
But you dont even know me.
I have concerns that you CAN hear it as a demand.
Yes, because facts are, if I dont then you will have concerns and wont be working with me.
Im aware it, it is a horrible situation for you and I think... I am aware... this ISNT going to work. And what do we do NOW because I AM concerned about you.
No you are not. You are not concerned about me, you are concerned about YOU. ... and your responsibilities.
You cant separate those two.
And I need someone who is strong, who isnt scared. And you are scared.
You dont know that.
You are already frightened of what might or might not happen, what the organisation might do to you.
No that is not true.
You......I....oh god (starting to get in touch with the pain)
When you were accepted to do the diploma, presumably you had an interview, yes?
Yes? And strangely enough they thought I was sane!
Um.... can you tell me who you had the interview with?
Why?
Um....well, you dont need to tell me WHO it was but was it a tutor or an outside assesor or was it a supervisor?
I dont understand why you want me to tell you this information.
Well, because, ok, fair enough, because I am, I DONT KNOW how they work now.
(Curious) What do you see when you look at me?
Something that troubles me. And and, which is to do with your FEAR. And the FEELING that you cant trust me, that I am judging you, that you feel you have to perform!
But these are facts..... these are facts. I am going by facts.
They, it feels like they are FACTS to you.
No, it doesnst feel like that. I am being told that if I am not able to talk to you and tell you about H then you have concerns. That is a FACT, I am not imagining this. And now you are asking me who interviewed me!
Well, umm, I , because, because... I am concerned about you being treated FAIRLY.
But YOU are not treating me fairly. Why are you concerned about other people treating me fairly, how about being treated fairly in HERE, with you? I am not being treated fairly.
Silence
But I dont want to be with a therapist who cant accept all of me. I dont want to work with someone like that.
long silence
Only because I seem different to you .... you dont even know me..... you know nothing about me......and all you are interested in is my training. you dont actually want to get to know me.....
No, its not THAT. I HAVE to be interested in the fact that you are umm...doing this training. I ACCEPT that I dont know the FACTS about you...I think ummm...
silence
Umm... I know a little bit how you FEEL about all this....
long silence
I cant believe this is happening.... asking me who interviewed me.... next thing you will want to know who my supervisor is.... its, um, and this is what I pay 50 pounds for.... to be assessed.... I leave here feeling like shit....because I have not been seen at all, all you bother about is my training.
It isnt EXACTLY that....as I tried to explain, you have come in context(?) of doing this training
Yes, I understand that. Just like everyone else in my class.... Yet... they seem to be able to ... be themselves....
What do you want to do about this? Because I think, you feel that you cant trust me and you DO know now I (something accept). It feels very unsatisfactory, very unhappy situation.
Yes, but I dont trust any therapist, that is why... right now, where I am, what exactly do you expect that I am happy and trust you? but after what I have been through it is not going to happen. I WANT it to happen. Thats why I go to therapy. Thats why I am here. But it makes me angry when it is expected of me to trust you straight away and to answer all your questions.
I......
silence
And whether it is you or any other therapist, it doesnt matter. I am not going to be able to trust for some time,
very long silence
how exactly do you want me to behave... what exactly do you want from me?
Im not wanting (......) you and thats where it just feels ...its as if therapy is about behaving in a certain way or doing something in particular, I dont think like that at all.
But it is. It isnt for ME, but it obviously is in HERE because I am being asked, you even go to the extent of asking me who interviewed me. I am getting contradictory messages from you. On one hand you say it is not about that but then you ask me questions like that and if I dont answer, you tell me you have concerns.
I asked that because.... I AM concerned about YOU and what you are doing. I am trying to make sense of that.
What are you concerned about?
I dont want to know the particular person at all, any names or anything like that. Im concerned about ummmm to work as a counsellor you have to be able to really THINK about things and be CURIOUS about things/
how do you know I dont think? How do you know I am not curious? How do you know what is going on in my mind?
Simply because the number of times you have said "I dont know" "I dont want to talk about it"
Yes... but maybe I could have said "I dont know if I can trust you" Maybe I should have finished my sentence. You dont know me. You dont know my intelligence, my emotional intelligence, my thoughts... you dont know what is going on inside me, you have no idea yet you judge me... saying... "as a counsellor you need to be able to think" What exactly are you saying, that I am not able to think? I cant work like that? Im not curious?
About yourself!
Yes, how do you know I am not curious about myself?
short Silence
I think you're right. This ISNT going to work and we tried it. And I am sad about that but sorry.
Do I have to pay you for this session?
Um, I would suggest you go and I am not charging you because this isnt working.
This session ended abruptly after 26 mins.
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